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Cinder Fall

Discussion in 'RWBY Characters' started by xGhostx, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Cybuster

    Cybuster Well-Known Member

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    That's kind of like saying that if someone steals someone else's stuff than it's rightfully theirs, because they put the effort into breaking onto the other guys house. It doesn't work that way.

    Yes Cinder put effort into getting the fall maiden's power, but the fact that she destroyed so many lives to get it and proceeded to use it to destroy even more lives once she got it, kind of shows that she's the kind of person that is unworthy and undeserving of that power (it was intended as a reward for kindness after all).
     
    #181 Cybuster, Apr 23, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  2. MechaG11

    MechaG11 Well-Known Member

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    I literally don't understand why you think this.

    First to clarify, you're making it sound like I'm framing it as if she's in the moral right. F**k no. She's the villain. She's evil plain as day.

    Maybe she doesn't deserve it, but she still earns it. She may be entitled and take opportunistic cheap shots, but through the course of her mission she has proved her physical skill, analytical prowess, patience, and strategic intellect. She earns that victory utilizing every asset she has as well as earning her place as a villain from an audience standpoint.

    Maybe nobody wants or thinks she should have it, but she has it.
     
    #182 MechaG11, Apr 23, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  3. AceofAces

    AceofAces Impyrrial Admin at Law, Esq.
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    Yeah, whenever you're judging the success of villains, you have to throw traditional notions of morality out the window because they're literally doing the exact opposite.
     
  4. Cybuster

    Cybuster Well-Known Member

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    My point is that Cinder stealing the fall maiden's power was meant to emphasise Cinder's sense of entitlement rather than being intended to portray her as someone who had to work hard to get what she has. That's what the intent of the story seems to be to me.

    It's probably also intended to make her contrast Ruby. One was naturally born with an ancient power, while having no idea it existed, while the other new about an ancient power and stole it from it's rightful owner.
     
    #184 Cybuster, Apr 23, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  5. AceofAces

    AceofAces Impyrrial Admin at Law, Esq.
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    Well, you're both right and wrong. You're right that she does carry with her some sense of entitlement, such as when she says, "I will reclaim what is rightfully ours" and telling Pyrrha she was never meant to be a Maiden. But she did work very hard to fulfill that sense of entitlement. By no means did Cinder ever expect the powers to just be handed to her. She carefully and meticulously schemed to take down Amber and then execute her grand master plan to bring Beacon and Vale to its knees while upsetting the entire global status quo.

    The problem that we have here is that you're instinctively associating "working hard" with "doing the honorable thing" when Cinder clearly worked hard through dishonorable methods and for dishonorable reasons. Not everyone who works hard is honorable and not everyone who is honorable worked hard to achieve something. Like you said, Ruby was born with her abilities. She didn't have to work for them the same way that Cinder did, yet she is clearly more honorable.

    Yes, Cinder stole the powers and they weren't rightfully hers if the path of history continued without Cinder attacking Amber, but wouldn't you expect this to be within the skewed moral compass of a villain? Of course you would, yet you wouldn't say that Cinder did nothing to take those powers and that she expected them to just fall in her lap, right? Cinder was motivated by a sense of entitlement, but actually put in the effort to make that entitlement a reality. So if you're judging Cinder within the skewed morals of a villain, she actually did earn those powers by being dishonorable and ruthless.

    All that we're saying is that you can't judge the works of Cinder from the perspective of a good guy with normal morals. You have to think like a villain does to judge another villain on whether or not they acted like a true villain.
     
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  6. Cybuster

    Cybuster Well-Known Member

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    @AceofAces

    I'm not saying Cinder didn't work to get what she has. What I'm saying is that the story was written more with the intent to make her look despicable rather than being intended to make us go wow Cinder worked hard to get what she wants.

    Which why her cruelty is often emphasized much more than the work she puts in.
     
  7. AceofAces

    AceofAces Impyrrial Admin at Law, Esq.
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    Well, duh. She IS the villain after all, but villains work hard too. Why does it have to be one or the other in this regard? Why can't she be despicable AND work hard to be despicable?
     
  8. Cybuster

    Cybuster Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but you guys were acting like all those scenes were written specificly to showcase the hard work that she put in, as if that was the main point of her character.
     
    #188 Cybuster, Apr 23, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  9. AceofAces

    AceofAces Impyrrial Admin at Law, Esq.
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    That's not what we're saying at all. In fact, at least from just what I was saying, I was responding to your claim about how Cinder wasn't working hard at all and that the ONLY thing about her was her being dishonorable. It's your exclusivity in it being one or the other AND NOT BOTH that is what we're responding to here.
     
  10. KineticKaiser

    KineticKaiser Impyrrial Inquisitor
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    Cybuster never said Cinder isn't working hard. He said the intent of the story wasn't to portray her as hard working.
     

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