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Vol 4, Ep 8: A Much Needed Talk

Discussion in 'RWBY Episode Discussions' started by AceofAces, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. AceofAces

    AceofAces Impyrrial Admin at Law, Esq.
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    Queued up for later today
     
  2. jan

    jan Well-Known Member

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    Did qrow just fucking die
     
  3. Chellote

    Chellote Active Member

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    Rooster Teeth, I'm tired of you and your gosh darn cliffhangers!
     
  4. Cybuster

    Cybuster Well-Known Member

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    A pretty big expo dump this episode, it was necessary and at least they put the characters a situation that called for it, but it doe feel like a big break from the actual plot. I like how our heroes reacted to it. It did an effective job of showing how hard a time they had taking it in. We atleast know what the relics are and the creation myth was kind of cool.

    Amber being a rookie seems to be an attempt to prop up the maiden powers and explain how one got taken down by three people.

    So it seems turning into a bird is a separate trate to his semblance, well I guess it kind of makes sense, but I hope they actualy explain the bird transformation.

    I liked the scene with Blake and her dad, I can be forgiving of breaks in the show don't tell rule as long as the characters have a justified reason to say it and it dosn't go into to much detail. They were able to have Blake naturally clue the audience in, on the circumstances of her staying in the more extreme version of the wf, without going into unnecessary detail. I can't say I like the idea of her dad going on about her facing her demons though. I seemed like it was trying to tell the audience that she did, when in reality she faltered. Then again there is a look of guilt on Blake's face so it's possible that is what triggered her. But I still think the scene would be better without that moment.

    I didn't like the scene with Blake and Sun. The monkey is still kind of annoying (although much more tolerable in my eyes, than in those of his harsher critics), but Blake came off like the bigger dumbass of the two. While Blake is a bit naive and impulsive, she should never come across as flat out stupid.

    As for Qrow at the end, I don't think he died but it was super unclear. The drama and tension was there for sure but a little more clarity would have been nice.

    Overall it was an uneven episode in my opinion, the good outweighed the bad for me, but I don't think that will be case for those less forgiving than I. While I have a higher opinion of Blake's story arc than most here, it is still the weakest arc of the volume, in my opinion.
     
  5. Demetrion

    Demetrion Member

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    Well, I'll try to remain positive as long as I can, but Dust help me, because it's hard. Well, let's roll out:

    1. Good 20 mins-lenght episode, including intro/outro though. Even so, it's a very good NY present. Also, I was surprised that RT uploaded new episode today.
    2. Many answers and backgroung info, narrated by Qrow. Basically, one epsiode of WoR worth data. I'm amazed that these sadistic bastards included it in the episode instead of giving us today episode of WoR, cliffhanger episode next week and thus prolonging our sufferings for two weeks. Like, really? You've realised that there quite enough of WoR? Amazing! Whoops, there goes my positive attitude. Well, I tried.
    3. While I like mometns when Jaune shines as cunning and perceptive tactian that he is, I don't like that one Jaune. Yes, he was on spot with his conclusions and observations, but was it necessary to make him look such depressive and cynical? You see, I'm raging not because it's unbelievable, but because of exact opposite of it: it's too realistic, too believable! Well, here goes what left of fairy tale air. Even Ruby's entusiasm looks dimmed today. I don't like it.
    4. Blake's scene. Don't even get me started. It was just too much.

    All in all, it was a great episode. While I'm boilng inside, I have to admit: well done, well indeed. And in hindsight I can see, that it was truly necessary to have these talks, to both RNJR and Blake. They'll have time to come to terms with these revelations.
    Well, that's it, I'm out.
     
  6. Lazy

    Lazy Well-Known Member

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    I really hope those aren't Qrow's last words; while hilarious, it doesn't give him the dignity that he deserves.
     
  7. HiBob

    HiBob Active Member

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    Alright let's do this...
    Let's start with the info meat:
    So Miles and Kerry got their WoR this week, but in the form of a episode. Apparently this whole thing has more than we thought with Gods of Light and Darkness involved...great . Jaune's reaction to what happened to Pyrrha was done well, I mean I would be mad too if someone I cared about got coaxed into something with very little knowledge and then died. Also looks like Qrow is the partially part of the reason for Summer dying, jeez no wonder the guy drinks with this is on top of Raven ditching her husband and daughter. Also Qrow you better not die!
    Okay time for Blake's half:
    Kali I know Sun is hot, but you have a husband who literally looks like he could lift a house. Oh Blake stop trying to run away from the fact you ran away, I know it hurts but at least your parents want to support you so just talk about it already. That armor bit was pretty funny. So evil White Fang is on Menagerie and of course Sun had to point it out. Also ninjas! Because this show needs ninja...no seriously that's awesome.
    *Time out*
    Okay I need to stop and get something off my chest...but I am really pissed off at the whole scene with Sun interrupting Blake when she about to tell what is hurting her. Like can we really not give her character moment this volume? Why does she need to be stuck with this freaking humor stuff?! My only guess if they are saving it for hopefully Yang's eventually arrival.
     
    #7 HiBob, Dec 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2017
  8. AceofAces

    AceofAces Impyrrial Admin at Law, Esq.
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    Well, this is certainly one way to end 2016

    - So RNJR is brought up to speed on the Maidens. Glad we didn't waste too much time rehashing what we, the audience, already know.

    - Back to the episode, and huzzah! We finally get RWBY's version of the Book of Genesis. Two gods, one of life and the other death/destruction (someone must have been playing Pokemon X/Y when they came up with this), were engaged in a constant tug-a-war between flourishing life and destruction until the younger brother went and made the creatures of Grimm and upset the natural balance. Before retreating from the world, the two gods made mankind and bestowed upon mankind 4 gifts that are embodied in the relics housed in each of the 4 academies for safe keeping: the ability to create (Creation), the ability to destroy (Destruction), the ability to learn about itself and its surroundings (Knowledge), and the ability to choose when to create and when to destroy (Free Will). And these relics grant their wielders the ability to change the world as they so choose.

    And so now the master plan is in full view

    - "Is it warm in Vale?" Typical dad moment and a good human touch to Blake's dad, even if a bit clumsy in its execution

    - IDK, this whole thing about Blake questioning whether her parents still love her after she stayed behind in the White Fang as it grew more militant seems so out of left field for me. Not once has Blake ever even hinted at there possibly being tension between her and her parents over this decision, even if such tension was imagined in her mind. If Blake had these feelings of doubt, I would imagine she would be more hesitant about going home. She said she went home to clear her head and get some answers, but I think we all thought that meant questions she had about herself and not about her feeling like she did something to strip away her parents love for her.

    - Blake: "I shouted at you! Called you cowards!"
    Me: "That's like the pot calling the kettle black, or, if this was old english, Blake."

    - If Blake is so not talkative, then how does her father know about Blake's confrontations with the White Fang?

    - Okay, I've been very tolerant and defensive of Sun so far in this volume, but I draw the line with this episode, though it's less about Sun's character itself and more about how his character was used. We were finally getting to the Million Lien question of why Blake left her friends behind, which is the most important question Blake can possibly answer at this point so that she can even begin to attempt to defend her previous actions amounting to illogical cowardice. After all, her father was trying to make the point of how Blake shouldn't try to do everything on her own, and that it's important to stand by her friends and take on these problems together, and then Sun derails the entire conversation. Why? Because it generates a fucking cliffhanger, and teases us about the answer to this crucial question.

    I don't doubt that Sun had an important reason in trying to warn Blake about White Fang spies lurking in Menagerie and that time was of the essence, but I hate that RT framed it in this way so that we don't learn this important piece of information regarding Blake's mindset when she abandoned her friends in Vale. Seriously, Blake might be one of the most mismanaged characters in the entire franchise because of shit like this. It's just that Sun is merely a tool for this mismanagement, so it's less of a poor reflection on Sun himself and more of a poor reflection on how RT is treating Blake's story.

    - I'm honestly a little surprised that Qrow doesn't know the next step other than speaking to Haven's headmaster. I think we were all hoping that Qrow would give RNJR a better sense of what their role would be going forward, but I guess this is enough of a breadcrumb for RNJR to go on.

    - @Cybuster, I think Qrow was just being metaphorical regarding his semblance pertaining to bad luck. His semblance is that he transforms into a crow, but the part of his personality that coincides with this semblance is his personal belief that he brings nothing but trouble and can't be considered reliable, that he'll always be a screw up in some way and will only hurt those around him. It's the same way that Blake views her semblance as an extension of her cowardice to face problems head on since she leaves behind a hollow clone of herself to absorb the hits while she runs away. Or why Weiss' glyphs are hereditary because of how important her family is to her. I don't think it's actually a case where Qrow is actually causing people to experience bad luck like he inflicts some kind of hex. Rather, I think that's just how he views his relationships with other people, and that he wanted to keep his distance from RNJR to avoid causing problems for them (even though having him tail them turned out to be pretty lucky since he mopped up most of the Grimm threats bearing down upon them while also being in the right place at the right time to intercept Tyrian). The bad luck is in his mind because he has a low opinion of himself (which might be why he drinks so much in the first place).

    - Ugh, these cliffhangers! So nice, they did it twice in one episode. *facepalm*

    Does Blake not know she's being led into a trap? And did no one seriously look at Qrow's wounds to see if it might have looked infected with toxins? We could have seen in the last episode that his gash looked purple and not like a normal one, so I thought they gave him some kind of antidote if he was talking as if he was perfectly fine.

    IDK, I have mixed feelings on Qrow potentially being dead. Part of me wants him to survive because (a) he's a cool character, (b) he's the only one out of the adult guardians who has a clue what's going on and is doing something about it, and (c) I was really looking forward to more interactions between him and Raven. However, him dying does fulfill the classic story trope of the mentor and the point in the hero's journey where she must press on alone without the mentor's guidance, especially after the hero is brought up to speed on the present state of affairs. It's just like the death of Obi-Wan Kenobi in A New Hope, though Luke has the benefit of being able to talk to Obi-Wan's ghost whenever he needs a little guidance to nudge him along, but not on the same level as in A New Hope where he was a more active mentor.

    With Qrow (possibly) dead, the burden falls upon RNJR to rendezvous with Haven's headmaster and carry on Ozpin's and his mission to stop Salem from destroying the academies and collecting the relics. We'll just have to wait until next week if we see Qrow sipping on an antidote and complaining about how awful it tastes in comparison to his whiskey, or if RNJR buries his body.

    Overall, this episode wasn't flawless, but the stuff about the gods and relics was the defining moment of this Volume tantamount to Volume III's revelation that magic and the Maidens are in fact real. We see the masterstrokes of Salem's plan made known to us, and we start to get a sense as to Blake's mindset regarding her ditching her friends at the end of Volume III (if only we weren't interrupted), both of which are major plot elements to this entire Volume. I'm curious as to how much more ground this Volume will cover since RNJR is not at Haven yet, and I feel like this Volume's purpose is to either react to what happened in Volume III and/or set up Volume V and beyond, but I'm hopeful as to how much more ground can be covered in the last 4 episodes. Just like with Volume III, now that we've seen the masterstrokes of the Volume begin to take form, it'll be a mad dash to the finale that will cover a lot of ground.
     
  9. AceofAces

    AceofAces Impyrrial Admin at Law, Esq.
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    I know we criticize RT a lot for the way that it handles lore in RWBY, how there's not enough, or how it's shown poorly in the show itself, or how WoR is a crutch that either tells us irrelevant things or undercuts revelations in the show, but seeing this revelation of the gods and relics in comparison to other expressions of lore, I think I finally understand RT's psychology when it comes to lore in RWBY, and yes, there are conscious decisions being made with respect to what to show, when to show it, and how to do so. There is an intentional purpose to how these things are done, and it's not a product of inexperienced writing.

    The basic psychology at play here is that RT wants us the audience to learn about the RWBY Universe at the same time as the characters do in the show. They want us to experience what the characters experience simultaneously, even going so far as to lie about the existence of magic at an RTX panel so that we learn about the existence of magic and the Maidens at the same time that Pyrrha does in Volume III, and how we are just now finding out that gods are real as well at the same time that RNJR is.

    The problem is that there is a disconnect between what we the audience know and what the characters know because they've actually existed in the RWBY universe before we the audience started paying attention to it. Things like Grimm, Dust, kingdoms, schools, the SDC already exist as part of the collective common knowledge of our cast of characters, so WoR serves to bridge the gap so that what is common knowledge to the cast becomes a part of our knowledge as well without detracting from the ongoing narrative to explain it all.

    Now some of you might argue that such things in WoR, like the fact that Jacques Schnee married into the Schnee family, to take one example, should be given a chance to be shown in the show before being "spoiled" by WoR. However, this undercuts the psychology behind what RT wants to do, which is as follows:

    RT wants the audience to ENTER a scene on the same page as the characters, not EXIT a scene with the audience trailing behind the characters and playing a constant game of catch up, so that the actual learning done by both characters and audience in each scene is as simultaneous as possible.

    Going back to the Jacques example, Weiss already knows her family's history, so any attempt for the show to explain that history for the sake of the audience would seriously detract from the narrative by wasting Weiss' time going over things she already knows, and the Schnee family history isn't necessary to the narrative, but knowing all of this in advance of Weiss confronting her father puts us on the same page as Weiss so that we know exactly what ideals Weiss is standing up for, the ideals embodied by her grandfather that her father has corrupted by being the invading influence that he is.

    Any time we learn something new from WoR, it's not something that the characters would learn organically during the course of the show, yet such information would be referenced in some way in the following episode. It's just that for the characters, it's them remembering something they already know pretty well, while for us, it's something we recently learned, but still already know in advance of the scene in question so that we possess every bit of lore that the cast of characters does.

    The point is, if we don't know something about the RWBY Universe, it's because the characters themselves don't know about it, or we haven't reached the point yet where our characters will have to remember what they already know. In the latter case of remembrance, WoR serves to bring the audience up to speed so that when the scene in the actual show comes up that references this information, we the audience are remembering these things alongside the characters, rather than having us the audience always be one step behind trying to catch up on things that aren't important in the grand scheme of things. You may think that such an approach leaves no room for surprises and that it "spoils" things, but as we've seen today, there is a LOT that our main characters don't know, and we'll learn these things together, at the same time.
     
  10. HiBob

    HiBob Active Member

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    Thank you! Seriously I had to get my mind working again to realize Sun was a much bigger issue in this episode than previous. I am so pissed that RT did this to us, I mean you had the perfect moment with Blake who has been questioning her love for her parents getting support from her dad to tell him what happened, but nope! I mean are they really going to make us wait for Yang ( who by the way has only appeared in two episode so far) to show up so we can get the answer?
     

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